• D1g

    Starting proper discussion about it.

    The most recent talk was in Thread:162337#4:

    In fact, if you would've discussed replacing the Science category, I would've definitely agreed (and I still am).

    My proposal is to follow this edit:

    And use these categories as new ground to build upon:

    Category:Science can be replaced with Category:Prototyped_with_Science_Machine now it makes it with 56 pages,

    Category with 56 items - makes it the best possible size of category for a wiki with so little content overall.

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    • D1g

      Any reason why should we keep Category:Science? Better suggestions?

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    • Science (and corresponding Magic) categories aren't helpful, if we find a meaningful way of organizing things, I see no reason to keep them (This is not an agreement to remove these categories, since there is no replacement implemented yet. It won't become an agreement, until I explicitly state that).

      For the proposal:

      • "Craftable Objects" name is redundant, it should simply be "Craftables". Aside from the name, I think this sort of makes sense to have. (This is not an agreement to implement this, Until I explicitly state so).
      • "Craftable Objects by Crafting Stations" doesn't seem like a category, as an object is never part of "Craftable Objects by Crafting Stations" grouping.
      • "Prototyped with *" is mouthful and redundant, and sometimes outright incorrect. Like in the example of ancient or volcanic, which contain items that can never be prototyped. These should have consistent names. Also, there is the problem of the prototyping stations names not matching with the tiers correctly, like in shipwrecked, there is no prestihatitator, so any category name containing that name doesn't work. So I suggest something like:
        • Always Available Tier (sounds bad, but I don't immediately have a better name for it)
        • Science I Tier
        • Science II Tier
        • Magic I Tier
        • ...
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    • It was in my queue to fix up the categories you've created before this thread. Instead I'll let you make the necessary changes once an agreement is made. I'll revert the change to item info box still, to prevent these from showing anywhere before we know how they should really be.

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    • D1g

      1. "Tier" is not informative at all - you have to read all headings at Crafting to understand it's name.

      Category:Science I craftables and so on - any comments about this?

      2. "Objects" was used only to distingush it from other categorization, which is orthogonal to it:

      3. Category:Craftable Objects by Crafting Stations is a container category; a category consisting of other categories, a category that shouldn't contain any single page.

      I don't know if "Category:Craftables by Stations" would make less or more sense for readers.

      Category:Crafting Stations was named as it's named. I simply used it's name. Please start a separate discussion if you want to discuss it in detail.

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    • D1g

      We can can change naming to omit "Craftable" and only state "Non-Craftable"

      Category:Items - anything craftable Category:Uncraftable Items - anything uncraftable

      But it will means massive changes in Category:Items.

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    • "<tier> Craftables" sound reasonable (this is not an agreement until I explicitly state). Tier is used in the wiki, so it is informative.

      For the category of categories to make sense, there should be other categories of categories. What else exists at the same level as craftables by stations (or I'd rather prefer Craftables By Tier)?

      "Category:Crafting Stations" has nothing to do with this.

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    • I'm personally in support of removing both Category:Science and Category:Magic; they are just vague and it took me a while to understand them at first.

      I'd say leave things that are always available uncategorized, and make categories based on the crafting tier. Like this for example:

      • No category for "Always Available"
      • "Science Tier 1" and "Science Tier 2" for Science Machine and Alchemy Engine, respectively.
      • "Magic Tier 1" and "Magic Tier 2" for Prestihatitator and Shadow Manipulator, respectively.
      • "Ancient Tier 1" and ""Ancient Tier 2" for Broken Ancient Pseudoscience Station and Repaired Ancient Pseudoscience Station, respectively.

      I see these as the best alternatives.

      - Deiaa (Wall)

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    • (This is a reply to Deiaa's last message) Makes sense to me. If we don't have a category for always available, should the others be prefixed with "Requires" or some such word? That would mean nothing = no requirements.

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    • Stl1234 wrote:

      If we don't have a category for always available, should the others be prefixed with "Requires" or some such word? That would mean nothing = no requirements.

      I'm not sure what you mean here. I'm assuming it's adding a prefix to the names ("Requires Science Tier 1, etc..."), which is something I don't think I really agree with, since category names here are simple. And very few, if any, have a verb in their names. This is something I'd like to stick with since this way categories are easy to memorize, search for, and list.

      If what you meant is not what's above, correct me and feel free to ignore this post.

      - Deiaa (Wall)

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    • That is what I meant. I agree about the long & wordy & not-category-like category names. The only goal was to provide a distinctive way of identifying items that do not require crafting stations or prototyping. Lack of a category doesn't really do that. Now I think about it, it is also impossible to just see the full list of items that can be crafted that way, without a category.

      I think I just convinced myself that we need a category for that, since lack of one doesn't group the data (unless wikia adds a mechanism to filter articles, instead of these fix-set categories). Perhaps it doesn't need to match the other names, "Always Available" may be ok.

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    • Stl1234 wrote:

      I think I just convinced myself that we need a category for that, since lack of one doesn't group the data...

      And convinced me, too. I agree.

      I guess it's the same thing, but add a category for Always Available instead of none. I still think adding a prefix to the names won't do much good, which now that the Always Available category will be there, it's even more pointless.

      - Deiaa (Wall)

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    • So, the list comes down to:

      • Always Available
      • Science Tier 1
      • Science Tier 2
      • Magic Tier 1
      • Magic Tier 2
      • Ancient Tier 1
      • Ancient Tier 2
      • Volcanic Tier

      For basic crafting tiers. The rest is more ambiguous, here is my take on it:

      • Blueprint Exclusive
      • Rare Blueprint Exclusive

      For the rest, since there are no tiers, I think we would keep using the tab categories, not create new tier related categories.

      • Cartography Tab
      • Pottery Tab
      • Shadow Tab
      • Books Tab

      Am I missing anything? Yay, Nay?

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    • Symbol strong support vote.png Strongly support I totally agree with each point here.

      Alright, any more things to discuss before we reach a full agreement? I personally think we have discussed all points available, unless I've missed something.

      - Deiaa (Wall)

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    • I think we're good. Thanks. Anyone with objections?

      I'll implement this tomorrow if no objections.

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    • Now were missing the Critter Tab since that is the new DST update. And yes, that is good

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    • I kind of feel like all these small DST tabs with a limited set of items should be separated from crafting. does the in-game UI look like the normal crafting?

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    • Yeah... its just that you have to scroll to reach all tabs added from dst.. dammit.. thats hard on laptop doe.. you need to do the caps lock thing

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    • An anonymous contributor
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